We had an experience today at our agency that has left us shaking our heads. Actually, what we experienced was what Yogi Berra famously referred to as déjà vu all over again.
The upshot is that a (probably unsuspecting…make that clueless) young lady has just ensured that she will never receive a job offer from our firm.
I am sharing this story to make a point. The point is: Everything counts. Especially when you are job hunting.
Here’s the story, which has repeated itself a number of times over the years at our firm. Names have been changed to protect the guilty.
Several months ago, I got a call from a friend of a friend. The FOF, it turns out, had a niece who is attending college locally, studying communications. Would someone at our firm, the FOF wanted to know, be willing to have an informational interview with her niece, to give her a sense of what a PR firm does and how she might best prepare for a career in PR?
We’re nice people. We try to help almost anyone who asks in the right way.
Of course she can contact us, I replied. Here’s my email address.
Several weeks later, we received an email from the college student, asking general questions about breaking into the business, applying for an internship, tips for her job search, etc.
I asked one of our senior employees to respond. She wrote a long and thoughtful reply to the student – three fat paragraphs’ worth. She also copied another employee who manages our internship program. She, too, wrote a lengthy reply to the young lady.
Neither received a single acknowledgement of their message. Not a thank you, not a that was really interesting and helpful – nothing.
Our employees commented on this at the time. You see, we remember these things. We remember how much time and thought we put into responding, and we notice when we don’t hear a word back.
Today, a new development in the saga: the same young lady wrote again. This time, she had a long list of questions she needed answers to – in order to fulfill a class assignment (BTW, this will be the subject of a future blog post…stay tuned!).
Really?
This young lady does not realize that she has no capital in the bank to finance this request.
We may answer her questions (tersely). We may even take the time to explain to her how her lack of common courtesy has doomed her permanently to the black list in our very detailed memory bank.
What we are unlikely ever to do is hire her.
The lesson is simple. You can almost never be too courteous. Thank everyone whose path you cross during your job search. (Yes, even the people who weren’t that helpful to you.) Thank them for their time. Thank them for their willingness to meet with you.
You never know when that person might be on the other side of a hiring decision or be in a position to recommend you.
PR people tend to have long memories. You don’t get far in this business if your recall is weak.
Make sure the PR professionals you meet with have no reason to remember you with anything other than positive thoughts.
Bravo! I can only top it with a young woman who came to see me, when I was a corporate communications executive at a Fortune 500 company, in flip flops and swigging from a bottle of water. She acted as if the job was hers from the minute she walked in the door. I started with a softball question, “So why are you interested in moving to Philly (from NYC) to work here”
And the response, without ever looking me in the eye (well, how could she, the water bottle blocked the view)
“My boyfriend is here.”
Wow. I said goodbye, after a courteous 30-45 minutes of my precious time, and never heard from her again.
Take care!
Couldn’t agree more. A proper thank you works wonders in business. And lack of common manners works wonders the other way. Cheers, David
Great points, A. On the flip side, job or intern candidates with less impressive experience can make the short list when their social and professional skills shine.
i work at a major market network television station in san francisco. i wish i had written this. exactly the same scenario plays out every year with FOFs.
Here’s one from the other side of the aisle. Many years ago, I interviewed with a boutique agency in downtown Chicago. I did all the correct things, researched the daylights out of the firm and their clients, showed up the proper 15 minutes early, filled out the application forms in record time….and then spent the next 50 minutes cooling my heels waiting for my interview. I finally got it, when my interviewer walked back in the door with the leftovers from her McDonald’s lunch clutched in her hand. My interview lasted slightly less than 10 minutes, because the candidate scheduled right after me had arrived before she had, and she “just couldn’t extend our interview then.” Not only did I not waste any more of my time sending a follow up letter, I automatically ruled them out of any business opportunities when I did locate a job. If they’re that unprofessional with their potential employees, I don’t want to find out how they treated clients.
Then there’s the agency that scheduled me to come out to interview for a position, despite the fact that in two separete phone interviews that at the time I did not have any agency experience. I made it 40 miles away in a heavy snowstorm on time for the interview, which took all day and involved speaking to five different people. By the time I left, there was 6 inches of snow on the ground and traffic was horrendous. On the way home, my car broke down, and by the time I had it towed and managed to find my way home by alternate transportation, it was 1 am. Now I can’t blame them for my automotive failures, but I was not in the mood to have the recruiter call me five days later to tell my I didn’t get the job because the position “really needs agency experience.” No kidding! What didn’t they understand in the two phone interviews? Needless to say, this group is on my “no business” list as well.
Professionalism is a two way street, and prospective employers can’t demand it if they aren’t willing to extend it to their candidates.
Debra, thanks for speaking out from the other side of the interview table. You make a good point — courtesy is a two-way street. You, as a candidate, deserve the same level of courtesy and respect that we expect from interview candidates.
Sorry to hear about your bad experiences. I tend to think that most PR people are good at the relationship side (it is, after all, at the core of our business!), but there are bad apples in every bushel.
I am going to end my re-quoting your last paragraph, which rang so true to me: “Professionalism is a two-way street, and prospective employers can’t demand it if they aren’t willing to extend it to their candidates.”
Thank you.
Debra is so right–I once had a firm put me through 5 hours of face-to-face interviews after a two hour phone interview. At the end of the session the hiring manager instructed me to call him back in a week–he had two more interviews to do. I called in a week, left a voice mail, and subsequently left 3 voice mails a week for the next three weeks, with no response. A friend who’s friends with the CEO of that company complained to the CEO that they were treating a well-qualified prospect (and potential customer) very shoddily, and that initiated a response from someone in HR who informed me they didn’t hire me because I didn’t have an MBA–something that was clear on the resume they saw before they ever called me for an interview. This was with a Fortune 500 company in Dallas, and was not an atypical experience when I was job hunting here. I could write a book about the dismal treatment of job hunters in Dallas.
Employers today treat prospects–experienced and entry-level–like dirt because they can get away with it. What is your recourse? Name names? Start a blog about bad treatment in job interviews? What would that get you, other than a little misplaced schadnefreude? So many people are looking for jobs that employers don’t bother to think about how they’d feel if they were out on the street competing for the few jobs available.
So while I agree that most students today (I now teach full time) have a long way to go in developing their professional interpersonal and social skills, employers need to remember that’s a door that swings both ways. And those of us teaching need to spend more time teaching networking and social skills to our students, which I do.
Yes, Samra, the door does swing both ways. And I bet every one of us (myself included) can tell at least one tale of poor treatment by a potential employer.
We try really hard to respond to everyone who asks something of us. But — and this is one of the sub-points of my blog post — those who ask the RIGHT way are more likely to get better treatment. If you can figure out a way to get to me via a referral source, you have suddenly catapaulted yourself head and shoulders above other job seekers who are sending in blind resumes.
I believe most people are decent and kind and want to do the right thing. I suspect we have a generation that has grown up without the training in common courtesy that many of us received as children — laid on top of a crappy economy for employers who are stretched incredibly thin, trying to manage with fewer resources. That’s a potent combination for disappointment — on both sides.
At the end of the day, those who demonstrate courtesy and graciousness (and I speak about employees and employers alike) will stand out.
Thanks for reading and commenting, Samra.
Anne
This is so true !
Even better than that is : when you hire such a person just to please the FOF she often thinks that she made a favour to you !
Elizabeth
So true, Elizabeth! Have you hired a lot of referrals like that? Sometimes, they can be more difficult to manage than an unknown candidate.
Clearly a thank you / acknowledgment is in order. What has the greater impact: an e-mailed thank you note or one in the hard?
E-mails are easier for the recipient to find, search, and file with previous correspondence. They find the recipient immediately when they are on the road.
Hard copy, especially on nice stationery in the hand of the writer was thought to be more personal. But is this still true?
Perhaps this a case where the answer is a function of the age of the recipient? It is definitely a function of the work being thanked. In other words, if the thank-you was for some work performed beyond a simple interview (like research, an introduction, etc.) a hard copy note should accompany a some token of thanks, e.g. a small box of chocolates.
Or in some cases, dog biscuits.
Jon —
I am working on a blog post about email vs. handwritten thank you notes. My bottom line is: Just do something.
However, I increasingly think that email may have a slight advantage over snail mail, in that you can write back in a matter of hours vs. days. In a competitive interviewing situation, responsiveness can be your ally.
But every thank you note — emailed or typed or handwritten — registers with a hiring manager.
Just say thanks.
Thank you!
Anne
It is almost laughable to me that someone looking to enter the PR world could be so clueless. Hello, PR stands for Public Relations; how people perceive you IS KEY.
In an economy where jobs are few and far between, networking is crucial. However, most people do not know how to successfully network, and people my age (I am a 2010 college graduate) are among the most oblivious. We live in an age and time where people are more self-centered than ever; people almost expect jobs to be handed to them because they “know someone.”
As an undergraduate psychology major looking to break into PR, I do not know many people in the business. It is unfortunate that a peer, lucky enough to have a foot in the door, would throw it away so blindly.
Anna —
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
Let me ask you this, since you are a recent grad: Why do you think these skills are missing (or appear to be) in so many young job-hunters? Have they never been taught this? Has technology displaced common courtesy?
I’d be curious to hear what you think. Others, please weigh in, as well.
Thanks again.
Anne
Anne,
As mentioned in one of your previous blogs, networking is the number one way job-hunters are landing jobs right now. Because this is common knowledge, people are attempting to network in any way they know how. The problem with that though, is that many young people do not fully grasp or care what networking is.
To most people my age, successful networking is getting a job (or some other type of gain) from someone they know. “I talked to someone I know, who talked to someone they know, and now I have a job.” This “me-me-me” mentality often equals success to many people. Due to social media such as Facebook, Twitter, etc. (all of which I love) my generation seems to think we’re a tad more important than we really are… we expect favors to be done for us.
However, to truly succeed in networking, I believe you must build a lasting, MUTUALLY beneficial and respectful relationship. People should want to keep in contact with you as much as you want to keep in contact with them. Manners and common courtesy are an easy, yet essential, way to establish oneself as someone people actually want to help out.
-Anna
This is a great post – a definite must read for those just starting out. I also think that the idea of networking might need to be more fully explained to college students or those fresh out of college. If I had a dollar for every time a friend or a FOF has said “I’m moving to NYC, let’s get together and network!” What does that even mean?!
I’m more than willing to help just about anyone but to be so blunt as to say “Help me find a job” is just completely off-putting. I’d love to see universities offer seminars on networking and business etiquette. I would have gladly skipped my Bio 101 to learn how to properly craft follow-up emails.
Thank you for your post!
Meghan
Meghan —
I do think you are on to something. College may be preparing you with the skills you need to practice public relations — but how well does it prepare you to find and land a job? Two different things, in my book.
Just keep in mind that networking is a two-way street. You get, you give. You will score HUGE points if you end every conversation with something along these lines: “I realize I’m just starting out, but is there any way I can help you? I’d like to be in a position to reciprocate your kindness some day.”
Wow. A potential employer will DEFINITELY remember you.
Anne
Great post- and one I closely identify with. As I am not too far out of college myself, I remember being in those shoes. I too reached out to organizations for assistance in understanding my potential field and I did write many thank you letters during my time in college.
However I will say, just for discussion purposes, that this may not be negligence on this young lady’s part but rather, something she is completely unaware of. If it weren’t for one of my college PEERS constantly reminding me to write thank you letters, I would have never thought to do so. I blame this part on my generation, growing up with a ‘ME’ mindset, and part on my curriculum in grade school that never taught me differently.
I think it is partially our job to fill in those gaps for students nowadays. Common courtesy is not as common as we think it is and giving this young woman the benefit of the doubt, maybe she just didn’t realize the potential this opportunity held for her future.
Again, great post! I think this topic needs to be more widely discussed and acknowledged in the classroom setting to avoid future instances like this from happening.
Angela —
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. You were one of the “younger generation” to comment, and I think you raise some excellent points about why gratitude doesn’t get expressed much.
I am working on a future blog post directed toward college professors, with some ideas of how we (employers and colleges) can collaborate to turn out “ready to hire” students. Stay tuned.
Thanks again for reading and commenting.
Anne
Jon raises a great question. I did a resume review session and probably met with 10-12 people. I only received one thank you, and it was on Twitter! I’m OK with a Twitter thank you, and I understand an email, but nothing? Wow. Only one person asked for my card, and she didn’t send anything. Even if the participants didn’t think it merited a thank you, wouldn’t you think they would want to cultivate that relationship? To Jon’s point, is that old-fashioned thinking?
Jen —
I don’t know what to think anymore. If it’s “old fashioned” to send thank you notes, then I would posit that we, as parents and employers, have not taught young people how important it is.
Any thoughts on how we can revive common courtesy in the workplace?
Anne
I experience this all the time. And not just from “newbies” but from experienced professionals who don’t bother to extend common courtesy like returning phone calls or emails.
I would take the time, however, to explain to this young lady why she is heading down the wrong path. She clearly lacked a manners mentor during her formative years…time to change that before it’s too late!
And IMHO…yes, baby boomer parents have raised their children with a strong sense of entitlement and not enough gratitude and respect for those who have come before them. Not all, but a lot. I’m still waiting for a thank you from my nephew for a high school graduation gift I gave him almost a year ago. Not holding my breath!
Yes, I do think we parents have helped create this problem! I remind my son all the time to thank everyone. I am still waiting for him to thank me for the excellent advice. LOL.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Anne
Anne and Anna-
Part of me wonders if it is just the way things are (not) done today, like the way thank you notes in general are disappearing. Or perhaps it’s a byproduct of parents not teaching common courtesy and the value of thanking someone, or the fact that the preferred method of communicating today is via email or text. Perhaps it’s the lack of follow through from the hiring professionals, who now often don’t even send letters to unsuccessful candidates who were interviewed in person. I honestly don’t know. You would think that in a social media world, where personal connection is paramount, job candidates and HR professionals would recognize the importance of the thank you letter – from both sides. Hmmm…..I sense a blog post of my own coming.
As a career-changing candidate moving from theatre into PR, the one thing I have learnt in my previous work is that courtesy is so, so key. I thank absolutely everybody – I smile at the receptionist at the door, because chances are they’ll be asked what they think of the candidates they talk to. I smile and say hello and goodbye to everybody, I answer every email I recieve and phone call I get. It doesn’t take much, but it makes such a difference!
I’ve worked with so many actors, crew, work experience people and directors to know that just little things like that makes all the difference between a good job candidate and a great one. Personality and affability is key, especially in PR, and good manners comes into that so much. Reputation is our business after all, right?
Perrie, you and I are cut from the same cloth.
I have a big soft spot for “invisible” employees that everyone overlooks — receptionists, office cleaners, checkout folks. When I am in a public bathroom that is being cleaned by a worker, I make a point of thanking her for her work. There are many “thankless” jobs that help our lives run more smoothly.
I also firmly believe that one kind word can turn someone’s day around.
Keep doing it, Perrie!
I’ve had young professionals contact me out of the blue asking for feedback on their resumes…I always respond and take time to give them thoughtful advice and have never once received a thank you back. What are they thinking?! We will of course remember their names. PR 101 – always say/send a THANK YOU! It’s very telling about your personality and how you would act on the job.
Amen, Shilo!
How you behave in the interviewing process = how you will probably perform on the job!
Simple, but not some!
Thanks for commenting.
Anne
Anne, I am always sceptical when someone other than the potential employee calls to set up an interview. Our industry requires a lot of personal contact and the ability to call clients, reporters, etc. Once the FOF has made the initial “is it okay?” query, it’s up to the job hunter to be selling him or herself.
Yes, Scott, I do think that has a big piece to do with this!
I am much more impressed when a young person seems to take the inititiative to start a conversation with us, rather than those who appear to be being “pushed” by someone else (usually an adult) to make contact.
One of our clients, a retained executive search firm, is fond of saying: “Interviewing is a contact sport, and many young folks don’t have a lot of experience with it!”
This is a great post, and it’s not shocking how it clearly resonates with a lot of people. Too many. If students had any idea how much we DO remember, and how good it feels to be appreciated for taking time out of our schedules, they’d be more inclined to be gracious and say thank you. One PR pro in particular asked my sister (director of PR for the hospitality industry) to review her resume, which she did, offering great tips and edits. The student did not even bother to respond. Very frustrating.
Rachel —
Thanks so much for reading and commenting.
Honestly, I bet PR people have the longest memories of anyone when it comes to being treated well or badly.
Do you think there are any solutions available to what appears to be a widespread problem? I am toying with maybe opening our agency, once a month, to any young person who wants to come by after work and get some tips on how to network effectively.
The only positive is that the job seekers who express gratitude stand out!
Thanks again, Rachel.
Anne
Great post, I couldn’t agree more.
Yes, courtesy is a two way street. I live in Philadelphia and I interviewed with a well-known agency in San Diego over the phone. We had multiple conversations, they called all of my references and the president of the agency told me that I got the job and they wanted me to move across country to start ASAP. I was ecstatic. I started looking for apartments and planning my move.
Soon after that, they stopped answering my calls and emails and I never heard a thing from them again. I am very happy that I didn’t end up moving to California to work for an agency that would treat a potential hire like that.
Amanda, I am sorry you experienced that. But I think you probably dodged a bullet!
Some of the hardest conversations I have had are when I have to call someone and tell them why we are NOT hiring them. I hate doing it. But I remind myself that I would want that courtesy and that paths have a way of crossing again and again.
Thanks again for reading and commenting, Amanda.
Anne
Anne: Enjoyed your post. Reminds me of the time last year when I went to great pains to screen and recommend the perfect intern for a client. The client had an interview with a few of their board members all set, some of them drove for an hour each way to be there. The young lady was a no-show and we never heard from her again! Needless to say it reflected poorly on me even though it was not my fault. People are just so rude! Love your blog!
And, Claire, you have just underscored one of the points I made in the post: PR people have loooooong memories! I suspect you will never forget that young woman’s name!
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Anne
Holy Moly!
Anne, I could not agree more! There really is no excuse.
However(yes I said however), while your agency clearly went above and beyond to help a seemingly eager, inexperienced, young person looking for information about your field, the number of “professionals” that fail to follow up, or reply to correspondence is equal if not as bad or worse. The door swings both ways.
I completely understand the frustration you all felt, especially after extending a hand of goodwill but I might have thought twice about publishing this “you have the nerve…?” letter on the company site that bears your name.
While you we’re clearly burned in this situation, and I understand the complete lack of courtesy you were shown, I feel there is something to be said about being the bigger person, about being the adult and the consummate professional in a situation like this.
I have to submit that rather than publishing what amounts to a public scolding, maybe you could elect to take the higher road. Reach out to this person and explain why their behavior was unprofessional and why it may hurt their chances with your agency. Five minutes of your valuable time might transform that young person’s entire professional career, all of which lies ahead of them!
It’s easy to be angry. It’s simple to make people wrong for something they’ve done. It may even be natural for some to play the victim. Instead, challenge yourselves to being a better person, a better mentor, a better PUBLIC RELATIONS professional.
It’s what you do! It’s the compassion and effort that speaks the loudest in developing meaningful relationships as well as future professionals.
Just my two cents.
Matthew Minton
Matthew —
I’m glad you wrote.
I labored long and hard before I decided to post this blog. We’ve never met, but I assure you, creating controversy is not how I operate. It is much more my nature to choose compassion and collaboration to address an issue than it is to slam out a provocative blog post.
Just to be clear, this post was not (primarily) about the anger and frustration we, as an agency, feel in being treated so rudely. Rather, it is frustration at how many young people are shooting themselves in the foot when they fail to exhibit common courtesy and decency in their interactions with potential employers.
The last time I tried to provide some constructive feedback to a candidate who sent us a cover letter that contained five typo’s, I was rewarded with a blistering email reply that informed me, “My father says you are dead wrong!” If I spent five minutes trying to educate every young person who is missing the boat on her or his networking skills, I wouldn’t get any client work done.
This blog post seemed to me the most efficient way to give a lot of people some food for thought.
I do think it is interesting that 90 percent of the feedback has come from other employers, all of whom seem to be experiencing the same thing we are.
The only bright side to this situation that I can see is this: the few job seekers who do practice common courtesy and express gratitude stand out. In some ways, that makes our hiring decisions easier.
Thanks again, Matthew, for coming at this from the other side. I appreciate your taking the time to comment.
Anne
Matthew,
Couldn’t agree more on the “reaching out” idea.
Well said.
Matt
Hi Anne:
Thanks, Anne, for addressing a simple subject that is so often overlooked. I had a career advisor counsel me once that the thank you note should be sent as soon as possible as the interview ends, and email is fine. I used to do the old fashioned way – send a hand written note – but don’t think this is the best way to go anymore because it’s too slow. I too have met with many individuals to give them career advice, without having them bother to send me a simple, takes-two-minutes-to-write thank you email. I won’t help them again!
Donna —
Thank you for weighing in! You, like some others I have been talking to on Twitter, have raised another great question, which I plan to address in the next blog post: How should a thank you note be sent? Handwritten or email?
My bottom line is: “Just do it!” But, like you, I believe email has the advantage of speed. And sometimes, in an urgent hiring situation, when you need to staff up quickly (and wouldn’t all of us agency folks like to have THAT problem again!?), speed can work to a candidate’s advantage.
Thanks again, Donna.
I’ll play Devil’s Advocate – partially because I’ve been mentoring college students for the past 7-8 years and always tell them to follow-up and email or write thank you notes.
Unless you’ve grown up in an environment that teaches you to write thank you notes (yay Bar Mitzvah and 300 notes), not many people think about it. Did anyone reach out to her afterwards to let her know the issue, that she should have followed up and at least thanked you for your time?
It seems odd to have to do that, but one of the main things I hear from students is how woefully unprepared they are for the simple job hunts and protocols.
Jeremy —
Thank you for your comments. I couldn’t agree more with you — I think we have a generation coming of age who were not taught that common courtesy goes a long way in making a good impression.
Early on, we did try to offer some “constructive” comments to students who were making a bad impression in their job-hunting efforts. But it either seemed to backfire or it fell on deaf ears.
I thought long and hard before I posted this blog. I suspect there is a very small group of aspiring PR professionals who will read it and heed it. But in a perverse way, it also makes my job as a hiring manager a little easier, since so many otherwise strong candidates opt themselves out of consideration by being, well, inconsiderate.
Thanks again.
Anne
PR people do have long memories. I remember when Beth Harte recommended you (Anne) on Twitter and that’s why I followed you (and it’s been a good choice ever since).
As far as correcting newbies on professional etiquette, I usually avoid it because I feel like a mom disciplining other people’s children. Also, one time I gave advice to a young PR professional that he should have a firmer handshake, but in retrospect I thought it may have sounded like I was implying he wasn’t masculine enough.
Although on the flipside, it’s so important to help people grow. For example, early in my career my boss sat me down and told me I had a nervous laugh in meetings and it came across as I was laughing at the client. I was embarrassed, but thankful. Long-term professional growth outweighs short-term embarrassment any day. But I believe job candidates should have a good, solid foundation of common courtesy skills before you invest the time in trying to help them improve their professional skills.
Doreen —
I think you had a great boss early in your career! We are starting some very personalized career development work with our small team here, and tips like that one can make a huge difference in how one is perceived in the workplace.
And, yes, I so hear you on the not-wanting-to-play-mom sentiment! But here’s my gold standard: I have a (just turned today!) 21-year-old son. I ask myself: Would I feel pleased if a caring manager offered this advice to him? If it passes my “mom” test, I usually think I am doing the young person a favor if I help them strengthen a weakness.
But it’s a process, not an overnight fix.
And I agree with you that Beth Harte rarely steers anyone wrong! She was a huge educator and role model to me when I was first dipping my toes in the social media stream.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting!
Anne
I could not agree with you more about this subject. I work in a very tight-knit department. We have fun and are quite chatty, but we also take our jobs very seriously and demand an extremely high level of professionalism.
When we interview someone for a position or an internship, practically every person in our department puts in their two cents about what they think about the candidate regardless of if they participated in the interview or not. It is far too common that a co-worker and I will greet an interviewee in our lobby and will leave shaking our heads at their rudeness or in some cases, stupidity (hello, do not text while two of your potential co-workers are trying to introduce themselves!).
Anyways, on a brighter note, we interviewed someone for an internship position around the holiday season. She was qualified, professional, but seemed a little shy so we kept interviewing other candidates until we found “the one.” Three days after her interview, we received a small box with some holiday goodies and a thank you note attached. Needless to say, she went above and beyond a simple thank you note, but it got our attention and we called her to say thank you for the goodies and offered her the internship. She has continually blown us away by her little “extras” ever since.
Marybeth —
I LOVE this story and thank you for sharing it!
Two summers ago, we interviewed a young lady by telephone for a summer internship. She wasn’t going to be in our area until the summer, so all of the decision-making and interviewing was done by phone and email. On paper, she looked wonderful — high GPA, worked to support herself through college (one of my hot “like” buttons!), very strong values. On the phone, she was very quiet and reserved. AND she made a point of telling one of our senior people that she was shy and was working on getting more comfortable with “putting herself out there.”
In some respects, she didn’t fit the extroverted profile we often associate with PR people. But we had a really strong feeling about her. We made her an offer. She came and spent a wonderful summer with us. She was a fine, fine writer and contributed strongly.
A few months ago, I got a handwritten note from her, thanking us for taking a chance on her, telling us how much we had taught her and letting us know she had a terrific job with a non-profit.
I can’t tell you how happy that made me.
I second your comment that expressing gratitude (especially in a creative way!) demonstrates something “extra.” Those who go out of the way to be gracious and grateful during the interviewing process are often signaling what strong employees they will make when hired.
Anne
You and all 48 of the responders to your post have fallen into the trap which ego sets for us, and hence you’ve lost your sense of compassion for both yourself and the niece.
1) In your righteous indignation you’ve overlooked the possibility that the niece’s email system sent your emails to her spam folder. I mean come on, who hasn’t had this happen?
2) Not all young people have been raised with the evidently gracious social skills and confidence which you now have. Perhaps reaching out to inquire about whether she received your emails and what her thoughts are on the advice given would help both of you. First it would prove whether item (1) above has occurred. Secondly it might just give a young person the needed boost in confidence to continue a conversation in which she might feel that she’s interrupting your busy business lives.
If neither of these are the case, then at least have the compassion to help her with her assignment, but also let her know how important it is to acknowledge the help of others. For all you know, your advice to her on that topic alone may change her life in a tremendously positive way.
If you cannot bring yourselves to do that, I understand. Life is hard. Business is business. And you have either lost your compassion or have yet to discover your hearts.
Ultimately the proper question for me to now consider…
“Why would I ever use your PR firm?”
Matt
PS: Will you respond to my comment? And remember, you’re a professional with years of PR experience behind you, not a young college student wondering what should be done.
Matt —
I hope you will share a little more about where you are in your life and career. I ask because most of the comments so far seem to have come from those of us who have been in the business for some time now and are in a position to make hiring decisions. Are you just starting out? Or are you a hiring manager yourself? I would be curious to know.
If you read all of the comments (including my responses), you’ll note that I said I struggled with whether or not to post this and that my “way of doing things” is generally collaborative and compassionate. I truly wish I had the time to personally help every young person who came to me for advice, but the reality is that I run a small business and need to be most mindful of my clients and my staff. If I wanted to coach young people, I would become a professional coach.
This post, whose emotion you characterize as “righteous indignation,” was more about expressing frustration at how so many young job-seekers are shooting themselves in the foot by not following up or expressing thanks for a favor done on their behalf. I’m sorry, but I don’t buy your theory that our emails got lost in the young lady’s spam filter; if that had occurred, she would have made another inquiry, possibly via her aunt. The fact that she contacted us a second time, with no reference to the first encounter, is equally fishy and demonstrates more poor manners.
In one of my earlier responses, I recounted a story where I tried mightily to give some kind advice to another student (also referred by a friend) whose cover letter contained five typo’s. I pointed out to her — gently — that had her letter not come in via a referral, it would have gone straight into the waste basket. I urged her to check her spelling and grammar before she sent out a cover letter. For my efforts, I was rewarded with a blistering email that informed me that, “My father says you are wrong!”
I think there are some young people who would respond to kindly delivered feedback, and I thank you for reminding me of that possibility. Butm in my experience, there are others, sadly, for whom such advice would fall on deaf ears.
This blog post seemed to me the most efficient way to communicate a disturbing trend I (and apparently, quite a few others) are seeing in the job field. It pains me that this economy has locked so many good, young people out of the game. But what hurts even more is to see that they remove themselves from consideration by not expressing a simple “thank you” when many of us are trying our best to extend a helping hand.
Thanks for taking the time to write.
Anne
Hi Anne,
Thank you for responding.
I’ve been in the business world for 25+ years, all inside of large corporate enterprises from manufacturing leadership to corporate executive roles. Over the course of that time I’ve seen many candidates as a “hiring manager” and in support of others looking to fill positions.
Without a doubt, I agree with you about the disturbing trend towards more of what I would call self-centeredness. Certainly I don’t want to go into the all the potential root-causes for this trend, but want to simply express agreement with your observation.
Two of the things I’ve learned over the years are:
1) That one can never be sure of the circumstance under which another person lives and works. Because of this, it’s always dangerous to make assumptions about the badness or cluelessness of another person.
2) Expectations of gratitude inevitably lead to disappointment to varying degrees. When we help someone without expectation of return thanks, it’s the purest form of giving. That being said, sometimes we just don’t have the time to give them the help for which they are asking, and we need to tell them such. But not because they didn’t thank us properly.
You run a successful public relations (communications) firm in the Philadelphia area. Perhaps you can seed your business growth by giving of your time to local universities to share your thoughts and experiences about job seeking candidates and how to be successful?
Certainly I also agree with you that some people (young and older) would heed the feedback while others dismiss it out of their self-centered orientation. All we can do is try to help without the expectations for the fruits of our labor.
Thanks again, Anne, for your thoughtful reply. I’m glad you made contact.
Best Regards,
Matt
I tend to agree with Matt on the subject. To dismiss a person from being a job candidate based on such a silly thing as a thank you email is absurd. This person has spent years in college building up the skills that might benefit your company specifically. I find it shocking how easily you dismiss all those years of studying over a simple email!! This is exactly what I’ve found to be PR’s biggest problem. They can’t see past the “suit and tie”.
From my experience in the workforce, which is center of production that keeps companies going, those employees who constantly pamper PR’s and managers (egos) are the least productive and least helpful for the company at large. Those who are confidence in their abilities to improve the company’s standing do not resort to flattery and ego building. They find it difficult to get through the interviews done by PR and HR personnel, but once in the door, they prove to be some of the best resources around. I’d almost describe it as HR’s wall against good employees.
I don’t feel that Matt has dismissed the fact that common courteous isn’t needed for co-operation. He has merely brought to light the fact that dismissing someone as a job candidate based solely on a missing “thank you” email is absurd!
Oh, one more thing.
In this age of digitally instant and viral communication, please be prompt in your response, no matter what that response may be.
Thanks,
Matt
Matt,
You make some good points, but I find it curious that you would interject a tone of hostility by slamming everyone who participated in this discussion. Did you actually read all the posts? If you did, you wouldn’t be so quick to condemn “all” of us for “righteous indignation.” If you actually read my two prior comments, you would notice that my point was that professionalism is a two way street, and perhaps the lack of follow up was in part attributed to the lack of courtesy follow through with the candidates they interview, and possibly the lack of examples to show these students how the job search process works.
A gentle suggestion of my own: As Anne said, PR professionals have long memories. If you plan to unfairly attack people, don’t post any identifying information in those posts, or you won’t have to worry about hiring Anne’s firm or any others – it will never get that far.
I totally agree with you Anne – it’s the ‘the world owe’s me’ syndrome. A lot of families don’t bother to teach their kids how to be grateful or to say thank you or even why they should be grateful. The question is how do we change this trend or communicate to youth that on their careers paths they are likely to find out the hard way. One of my staff took off to do freelance social media and we worked with him on some issues. But then he rang a client of mine without telling me to offer his services – so zero courtesy – hey, you know what, the result of course is that he won’t get any more business from us! I agree with you, if families no longer want to impart education to their offsprings, maybe we need to put this subject on school curriculums!